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RCW79
Underclassman
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 17:58:48
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Hi David,
This is the best board I have found. Thank you very much for taking the time to guide people like me. I'm 2 years away from applying to top 15 programs and have three high level questions about the process that I have not seen addressed here.
1. I just took what I considered to be a "diagnostic" GMAT and scored a 770 (47 Quant, 51 Verbal). This was better than I expected but was done with only 3 days of reading a prep book. Is it ever a good idea to try to improve on a score like this or is that a waste of time and effort? I think I could get 790/800 with sufficient preparation, but am not sure of whether there is sufficient "wow factor" associated with this to offset the possibility that this was a fluke and could end up with a lower score.
2. I will be 3 years older than most of my competitors who have the same ammount of work experience due to 2 years in the military, and a year spent getting my Comp Sci masters. I realize that these experiences can be spun positively, but at what point, if any, does age start to adversely affect your application.
3. Is the fact that I am married with 3 school aged children likely to adversely affect my consideration, due to the perception that I may spend less time contributing to the program.
Thanks in advance for window into this daunting process.
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AdmissionsConsultants
Admissions Expert
USA
2124 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 19:57:16
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Hi MBA Tonic and thanks for your inquiry.
Dear David,
First off, I'd like to pat AdmissionsConsultants on it's back (figuratively of course) for such an excellent forum! :)
Thanks!
Now for the real reason behind my posting:-
I have a BS in Computer Engineering from a pretty good school, with a cumulative GPA of 3.2. I took the GMAT the last semester while I was still at college (Fall 2005), and scored a 780, AWA score 6. I had just prepped for a month, and so was immensely pleased with my scores. Consequently I decided not to apply for B-school right away and to wait a few more years to get into a top school.
Congrats on the GMAT. It's good for 5 years and that score won't preclude you from any school.
I have been working in IT for a little over a year now, since graduation, and plan to apply for B-School to start my MBA in Fall 2008. (So I'll have about 2.5 years of experience then).
I have recently started a company, and am pretty involved in my community. The thing is, I don't hold any leadership title or 'officer' position in any organization because I prefer to interact with people on a much more personal level.
You should have some leadership from your entrepreneurial experience. You might need to tweak your positioning over the next few years.
My questions to you are:
1. I've been wanting to do an MBA for such a long time now, and would ideally not want to wait longer to start applying. Do you think it makes sense for me to try to apply for the class of 2010 or wait a couple more years until my application is strengthened through more extra activities, etc? As a side note, I don't want to 'waste' my GMAT score and would like to apply before the 5 years are up. :)
You definitely should consider applying within that 5 year window.
If you're ready to apply and your career has progressed adequately, then go for it. I just think you likely need to demonstrate a bit more leadership before you're going to be competitive at the top 10 schools.
2. Will my 'lack' of leadership activities play against me even though I have demonstrated leadership potential in the past? (like in school)
It's definitely preferable to gain some leadership to not have that potential weakness. This said, a lot of it depends on your story as many applicants (I/B analysts come to mind as one group) can get admitted without having much leadership.
3. I'm 24, female, and in IT. How do you think the admissions committees will view my profile?
Given your IT background, I'd like to see you work on the leadership area before applying, however.
4. Last but most important, what range of business schools do you think I should target? Should I apply to some of the 'cream' like Stanford/ Wharton/ Kellogg, or should I keep it a little lower in the Anderson/McCombs region?
With a decent career progression and well-prepared applications, you should be competitive wherever you apply.
Thanks in advance! :)
~MBATonic
Best of luck with your applications!
Sincerely,
David Petersam President AdmissionsConsultants, Inc. DPetersam@admissionsconsultants.com
www.admissionsconsultants.com/mba/blog.aspx
AdmissionsConsultants 703.242.5885 |
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AdmissionsConsultants
Admissions Expert
USA
2124 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 20:10:15
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Hi and thanks for your inquiry.
I have two opportunities that I'm struggling to choose between. One of them is to be an analyst at a hedge fund (credit markets), and one is with the Your Master Plan Progam with Ernst and Young.
In case you aren't familiar with the YMP program, it is where E&Y pays for your Master's in Accounting at the University of Virginia, and then you work for them for a minimum of four years.
Often times the foregone salary in your years of obligatory service (in your case, apparently, 4) outweigh the benefits of the tuition free education. You may also want to consider your need for the Master's in Accounting degree.
The hedge fund job is in New York - far from my family, which is important because my mom is sick. My wife and I would also just much prefer to live where the E&Y job is. We are ok with the fact that it will pay much less money.
My main concern, however, is that accountants from the Big 4 firms are a dime-a-dozen and that taking that job will hurt my chances to get into a top MBA program later on. In your expert opinion, how is public accounting perceived as work experience by the top programs?
If I'm just wearing my admissions hat, I'd say go with the hedge fund offer. However, I certainly respect the familial aspect of your decision and applicants from Big 4 firms do get admitted to b-schools though they're often harder to differentiate than members of many other applicant pools.
For the record, I have a 780 GMAT, 6.0 AWA, and a 3.71 undergrad GPA in Economics. I would like to work for E&Y for now, although I don't see myself trying to make partner and make a lifetime career out of it, and I'm fairly confident that I'll like to go back for an MBA from a top school when my 4 years are up.
If you do go to E&Y, just make sure no one at the "up or out" firm catches on to your non desire to make partner. (Please note, I'm not accusing you of not realizing this. This is just an FYI for you and other readers.)
It's easy for me to say since I'm not in your position, but are there other potential options that would keep you closer to home? I'd hate to see you go into public accounting if it's not something you're going to enjoy. We've found applicants from regional accounting firms -– with the right stories –- can fare better than their Big 4 counterparts.
Thank you very much in advance for your insight.
Best of luck with your applications!
Sincerely,
David Petersam President AdmissionsConsultants, Inc. DPetersam@admissionsconsultants.com
www.admissionsconsultants.com/mba/blog.aspx
AdmissionsConsultants 703.242.5885 |
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AdmissionsConsultants
Admissions Expert
USA
2124 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 20:20:12
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Hi Matt and thanks for your inquiry.
Hello there-
First, thanks for hosting the forum. Here are my stats ~3.8 University of Illinois BSME '02 Business related competitive admission minor mechanical engineering design / manufacturing work experience - most recently with a fortune 500 company. resume demonstrates career progression, esp in perceived quality of employer Varied extracurriculars including service, athletic, social but not much leadership until recently applied with 710 GMAT 99V 65Q 6 AWA but just days before R2 decisions improved to 760 99V 86Q 5 AWA. I sent the new scores with a brief cover letter. on the waitlist at Chicago GSB (My #1 choice) this point, was also waitlisted R3 last year how much does the higher GMAT help chances of getting off the waitlist? anything else I can do? Worth the time / money to have someone look at my application portfolio at this point?
The new GMAT score and greatly improved quant percentile should help significantly. There might be some concern about why you applied in R2, particularly since you're a re-applicant.
If you haven't already already done so, you should submit at least an additional letter to Chicago that addresses your weaknesses and/or highlights your strengths. (Exactly what you will need to say will depend on your particular candidacy and why your application was waitlisted in the first place.)
Thanks, Matt.
Best of luck with your applications!
Sincerely,
David Petersam President AdmissionsConsultants, Inc. DPetersam@admissionsconsultants.com
www.admissionsconsultants.com/mba/blog.aspx
AdmissionsConsultants 703.242.5885 |
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AdmissionsConsultants
Admissions Expert
USA
2124 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 20:59:22
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Hi and thanks for your inquiry.
The recent rise of MBA applications has caused me a lot of angst. It appears the MBA applicants will continue to rise as the echo boomers (1982-1995) are now becoming of age to apply to MBA schools. I plan to apply to MBA programs for the 2008 school year.
Admittedly, it's been a bummer and it's more competitive now than it was a few years ago. I'll also admit this is easier said than done but, try not to worry about things outside your control. If you put your best effort forward, you'll have nothing to look back on with regret.
Here are my stats:
1)Very low undergraduate GPA (2.6) in History from Big-10 school. My GPA in the last 40 hrs was 3.3. I graduated back in 1994. 2)Just took GMAT last month for 720 (6 months of hard study!). 3)MS in Information Systems (3.5 GPA) from UCLA received in 2005. 4)I am 38 and work in IT (database) making $150k/year. 5)I am starting to take pre-MBA courses (calc, econ, mgmt etc) at UCLA extension and plan to finish 7-10 courses prior to B-School.
If you take too many courses, you risk the schools thinking you no longer need the MBA degree. Just something to keep in mind as 7 to 10 courses is definitely on the high side of what we recommend clients take to build an alternate transcript.
What are my chances for the following programs?
1)Nortwhestern (1 year program with Business course pre-requisites). 2)Cornell (12 month option for those with MS). 3)UCLA (Part-Time)
Your career progression appears to be good given your salary and I'm sure any lack of extracurriculars can be mitigated given your other strengths.
With well-prepared applications (and this includes very good reasons for why an MBA), you should be competitive at these programs based on what you shared here.
Thanks in advance.
Best of luck with your applications!
Sincerely,
David Petersam President AdmissionsConsultants, Inc. DPetersam@admissionsconsultants.com
www.admissionsconsultants.com/mba/blog.aspx
AdmissionsConsultants 703.242.5885 |
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AdmissionsConsultants
Admissions Expert
USA
2124 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 21:51:09
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Hi and thanks for your inquiry.
Hi David,
This is the best board I have found. Thank you very much for taking the time to guide people like me. I'm 2 years away from applying to top 15 programs and have three high level questions about the process that I have not seen addressed here.
1. I just took what I considered to be a "diagnostic" GMAT and scored a 770 (47 Quant, 51 Verbal). This was better than I expected but was done with only 3 days of reading a prep book. Is it ever a good idea to try to improve on a score like this or is that a waste of time and effort? I think I could get 790/800 with sufficient preparation, but am not sure of whether there is sufficient "wow factor" associated with this to offset the possibility that this was a fluke and could end up with a lower score.
Good question. Your hypothesis doesn't hold up though. The 770 is more than adequate to address any concerns about your verbal and quant skills. If you retake the test, you'll risk coming across as arrogant and/or insecure. (I'm assuming, of course, that your AWA score is adequate.)
2. I will be 3 years older than most of my competitors who have the same ammount of work experience due to 2 years in the military, and a year spent getting my Comp Sci masters. I realize that these experiences can be spun positively, but at what point, if any, does age start to adversely affect your application.
It's not going to be a concern for you if it's properly spun.
3. Is the fact that I am married with 3 school aged children likely to adversely affect my consideration, due to the perception that I may spend less time contributing to the program.
Good question. But again, no. You will find students who are married and have already started families at the top b-schools. The b-schools even provide family-based activities and support to the families that often includes career services for the relocated spouse.
Thanks in advance for window into this daunting process.
My pleasure!
Best of luck with your applications!
Sincerely,
David Petersam President AdmissionsConsultants, Inc. DPetersam@admissionsconsultants.com
www.admissionsconsultants.com/mba/blog.aspx
AdmissionsConsultants 703.242.5885 |
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pd21484
Underclassman
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 10:35:43
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David,
As a young professional working for a global bank, I hope to apply to a top 25 graduate program in the Fall of 2008. Is application to such a program too ambitious for someone with just 1.5 years experience (shy of 2 by fall 2008) to apply to such a program?
My background is a B.B.A. in Economics from Loyola College (MD), class of 2006, with a 3.55 GPA. My current position is a marketing and operations manager for a proprietary money managing group within my firm, which in itself is a high-responsibility, leadership position. I hope to take and pass the Level 1 CFA exam this December as well.
Aside from continuing gaining experience at work and preparing for and taking the GMAT in early 2008, what tips/advice would you give to someone looking for apply to graduate school in the next year in order to boost their credential for entry? Are there any ways to enhance my application in light of my lesser but still highly-valuable work experience?
I plan on targeting schools located in/around NYC, Boston, and Chicago in hopes of increased opportunities in money management coming out of business school. Your guidance is much appreciated. Thanks. |
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AdmissionsConsultants
Admissions Expert
USA
2124 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 10:31:07
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Hi and thanks for your inquiry.
David,
As a young professional working for a global bank, I hope to apply to a top 25 graduate program in the Fall of 2008. Is application to such a program too ambitious for someone with just 1.5 years experience (shy of 2 by fall 2008) to apply to such a program?
My background is a B.B.A. in Economics from Loyola College (MD), class of 2006, with a 3.55 GPA. My current position is a marketing and operations manager for a proprietary money managing group within my firm, which in itself is a high-responsibility, leadership position. I hope to take and pass the Level 1 CFA exam this December as well.
Please don't think I'm trying to bash the CFA exam, but I don't want you or any other reader to rely too heavily on this credential. It's just not very unique amongst b-school applicants. It will best boost your chances if it compliments your post-MBA career goals.
Aside from continuing gaining experience at work and preparing for and taking the GMAT in early 2008, what tips/advice would you give to someone looking for apply to graduate school in the next year in order to boost their credential for entry? Are there any ways to enhance my application in light of my lesser but still highly-valuable work experience?
If you can demonstrate that additional pre-MBA work experience won't move you closer to your long-term career goals and you have gained the professional maturity necessary to fully garner the benefits of your MBA education, then go ahead and apply.
I plan on targeting schools located in/around NYC, Boston, and Chicago in hopes of increased opportunities in money management coming out of business school. Your guidance is much appreciated. Thanks.
There are many different school selection issues to consider. Just be aware that many of these money management firms do visit top b-schools outside those 3 metropolitan statistical areas (MSAs).
Best of luck with your applications!
Sincerely,
David Petersam President AdmissionsConsultants, Inc. DPetersam@admissionsconsultants.com
www.admissionsconsultants.com/mba/blog.aspx
AdmissionsConsultants 703.242.5885 |
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What to do in Boston
Underclassman
1 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 17:10:21
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Thanks for maintaining the helpful blog. After reading a fair bit of it, I have a better sense of the MBA admissions game. Still, I don't have a great sense of my own prospects and I was wondering if you would be kind enough to give me your thoughts.
I'm six years out of a state college at which I spent six happy years obtaining two B.S. degrees (industrial engineering and finance with a math minor) with a measley 3.07 gpa (including a 1.73 final semester to celebrate my admission to law school). I'm also three years out of a top 14 law school. Following law school I spent a year clerking for a federal judge. I've been working at the same small law firm ever since, doing mostly white collar criminal defense. I may be one of the few practicing attorneys that enjoys his job and still wants to get an MBA. Although I've represented corporations in criminal investigations, I don't practice what is considered corporate law.
It's a great job, for a lot of reasons, but because my girlfriend is committed to living in Boston for three years (one of which will have passed by the time I can start an MBA program), I must move there. Since I'll be forced to leave my job, I am considering getting an MBA rather than working at a law firm sweatshop to pass the two years in Boston.
The catch of course, is that because I have to be in Boston, I'm only interested in Harvard and MIT, and these are obviously not easy schools to get into. I took the GMAT a couple of weeks ago to see if this was even worth exploring given my low undergraduate GPA and complete lack of extra-work or leadership activities (I don't know where I'd get the time), and scored a 760-99th (v47-99th/q48-86th- practice law for a few years and you might forget how to do long division too).
Aside from any thoughts you might have on whether an MBA would be a waste of time and money given that I'm committed to continuing my legal career after my stint in Boston, I was hoping you could provide insight in two areas.
First, I've heard you refer to something called an "alternate transcript." I'd like to use my class valedictorian's transcript if I get to just pick one. Seriously though, I'm not sure what you mean. Since I have 2 degrees, I have over 200 credits worth of undergraduate courses, but can I really, with a straight face, give someone a transcript of selected courses and ask them to give it any real weight?
Second, although I have three years of work experience, it's all litigation experience. I don't get the sense that this is what MBA admissions staff are looking for. This will obviously also affect my recommendations. I expect them to be very positive, but they will have to come from attorneys that are not in the business world. Furthermore, I have a fraction of the legal experience of all the other attorneys at my small firm (I'm the only associate), so I've been about as far from leadership positions as the receptionist. How will my work experience affect my chances?
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Edit: Just for fun, I put together a transcript totalling 120 credits (probably enough for a degree), made up of the courses in which I received my better grades. The overall GPA using that selection is 3.72. Oddly enough, this pick of courses includes all of my math, industrial engineering, and finance courses. The difference between that GPA and my real GPA of 3.07 makes me scratch my head and wonder what I did for a few of those semesters in college. I worry that an admissions officer will think I had a crack habit or something. |
Edited by - What to do in Boston on 04/16/2007 19:18:25 |
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mavgibb
Underclassman
1 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2007 : 03:50:35
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From some of your previous posts, I've gathered that Management consultants are in competitive pool. I have an offer from a big 4 consulting firm, as well as offers for entry level analyst positions in Supply Chain and Operations divisions from other companies. I'm fresh out of undergrad, and think that I'll apply for an MBA 2-3 years down the line.
1. I can see myself having an excellent experience in any of these positions. For MBA schools, however, will any of these positions give me a better chance than the others?
2. With consulting, especially in the Big 4, there is a limited career progression in 2-3 years. Also, with all the travelling, there is little room for extra-curricular activities. So what can I do to set myself apart in the next two years? |
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ladyinred
Underclassman
1 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2007 : 16:10:32
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| Once offered an invite to interview, what are your chances of acceptance in R3? |
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rkjha
Underclassman
2 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 03:17:50
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Hi david, Read a lot about you and your advices given to people. I have recently taken toefl and am planning for future. Hope you have something in store for me too! My profile is as follows: GMAT: 710(Q50,V36) AWA: 5 TOEFL: 104(25,29,22,28) CGPA: 3.8 Work ex: 41 months by aug.2007: 14 months as merchant navy officer on a foreign going vessel,rest as maths teacher at a local school:
Community service: 30 months as an NGOist :
EC: house captain at school, school topper: cleared prestigious IIT exam, organize sports tournaments at college: captained medical committee for four years: college cricket team member: organized vaccination camps: organized fund raising programs on many occasions.
Work place: appreciation for outstanding performance while the ship was at peril recently,several appreciation letters: organized sports tournaments onboard: safety committee representative at ship: served at higher rank than allotted( got a certificate with regard to this), organized a few cultural fests at district level.
Target school: Stanford,duke,kellog,isb,oxford,darden,annarbor
Query: should I retake gmat as I recently tried one of the sets and there was a difference of 50 points than earlier time?what about toefl? May be you can help me with your insights regarding the admission process ,preparing good application packet etc.please do mention references,links or any thing else you find helpful. Please comment on my selection of the schools. thanks and in anticipation.
* please ignore the mail sent under general forum category. |
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ekao1979
Underclassman
2 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2007 : 21:05:14
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Hi Dave,
Very informative site! Many Thanks!
Just wanted to ask what the general attitude towards experience in family business is?
A little on my background.
1)Ivy league undergrad Econ Major GPA 3.0 2)GMAT: 700 3)2.5 years at AT&T as business analyst - assessing financial impact of strategic decisicions made by senior execs 4)3 years of experience at family business managing a team of 5 people - business development work (developing new markets around the world + overseeing pricing, costing, and marketing functions)
My reason for pursuing a MBA is to acquire more knowledge and ideas to help build, improve, and expand my existing family business.
How do MBA admission boards view experience in family business? Which schools view candidates with management experience (+ prior work experience in large, global firm) favorably?
Thanks for the help. |
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AdmissionsConsultants
Admissions Expert
USA
2124 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2007 : 13:29:18
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Hi and thanks for your inquiry. Sorry it's taken me a little while to respond. We've been very busy and, as I've stated on multiple occasions, phone calls get the quickest responses followed by email inquiries.
Thanks for maintaining the helpful blog. After reading a fair bit of it, I have a better sense of the MBA admissions game. Still, I don't have a great sense of my own prospects and I was wondering if you would be kind enough to give me your thoughts.
I'm six years out of a state college at which I spent six happy years obtaining two B.S. degrees (industrial engineering and finance with a math minor) with a measley 3.07 gpa (including a 1.73 final semester to celebrate my admission to law school). I'm also three years out of a top 14 law school. Following law school I spent a year clerking for a federal judge. I've been working at the same small law firm ever since, doing mostly white collar criminal defense. I may be one of the few practicing attorneys that enjoys his job and still wants to get an MBA. Although I've represented corporations in criminal investigations, I don't practice what is considered corporate law.
It's a great job, for a lot of reasons, but because my girlfriend is committed to living in Boston for three years (one of which will have passed by the time I can start an MBA program), I must move there. Since I'll be forced to leave my job, I am considering getting an MBA rather than working at a law firm sweatshop to pass the two years in Boston.
The catch of course, is that because I have to be in Boston, I'm only interested in Harvard and MIT, and these are obviously not easy schools to get into. I took the GMAT a couple of weeks ago to see if this was even worth exploring given my low undergraduate GPA and complete lack of extra-work or leadership activities (I don't know where I'd get the time), and scored a 760-99th (v47-99th/q48-86th- practice law for a few years and you might forget how to do long division too).
Aside from any thoughts you might have on whether an MBA would be a waste of time and money given that I'm committed to continuing my legal career after my stint in Boston, I was hoping you could provide insight in two areas.
Unless the MBA is going to help you achieve your future career goals, it would not be a sound investment for you.
First, I've heard you refer to something called an "alternate transcript." I'd like to use my class valedictorian's transcript if I get to just pick one. Seriously though, I'm not sure what you mean. Since I have 2 degrees, I have over 200 credits worth of undergraduate courses, but can I really, with a straight face, give someone a transcript of selected courses and ask them to give it any real weight?
An alternate transcript comes into play when an applicant had poor grades and takes some additional classes to show s/he can handle the coursework. It's supposed to proclaim, "Hey, I'm a different person today than I was when I was in school. I have a better study ethic."
Second, although I have three years of work experience, it's all litigation experience. I don't get the sense that this is what MBA admissions staff are looking for. This will obviously also affect my recommendations. I expect them to be very positive, but they will have to come from attorneys that are not in the business world. Furthermore, I have a fraction of the legal experience of all the other attorneys at my small firm (I'm the only associate), so I've been about as far from leadership positions as the receptionist. How will my work experience affect my chances?
As stated above, it's your future career goals with which I'm far more concerned. We've helped many lawyers at the associate level gain admission to top b-schools.
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Edit: Just for fun, I put together a transcript totalling 120 credits (probably enough for a degree), made up of the courses in which I received my better grades. The overall GPA using that selection is 3.72. Oddly enough, this pick of courses includes all of my math, industrial engineering, and finance courses. The difference between that GPA and my real GPA of 3.07 makes me scratch my head and wonder what I did for a few of those semesters in college. I worry that an admissions officer will think I had a crack habit or something.
Best of luck with your applications!
Sincerely,
David Petersam President AdmissionsConsultants, Inc. DPetersam@admissionsconsultants.com
www.admissionsconsultants.com/mba/blog.aspx
AdmissionsConsultants 703.242.5885 |
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AdmissionsConsultants
Admissions Expert
USA
2124 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2007 : 13:58:49
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Hi and thanks for your inquiry.
From some of your previous posts, I've gathered that Management consultants are in competitive pool. I have an offer from a big 4 consulting firm, as well as offers for entry level analyst positions in Supply Chain and Operations divisions from other companies. I'm fresh out of undergrad, and think that I'll apply for an MBA 2-3 years down the line.
1. I can see myself having an excellent experience in any of these positions. For MBA schools, however, will any of these positions give me a better chance than the others?
Unfortunately, this medium doesn't allow for the type of in-depth discussion you need to get these questions definitely answered. I can just tell you that any of these options can be viable for a competitive MBA candidacy. The decision you reach should be based on your personal preferences and both your short- and long-term career goals.
2. With consulting, especially in the Big 4, there is a limited career progression in 2-3 years. Also, with all the travelling, there is little room for extra-curricular activities. So what can I do to set myself apart in the next two years?
The schools will have a good understanding of your situation given that they see so many similar applicants every year.
Exactly what you should do will depend upon your most likely story themes, wow factors, etc. It should definitely be something personalized to your candidacy if it's going to be most effective and that's beyond the scope of this thread.
Best of luck with your applications!
Sincerely,
David Petersam President AdmissionsConsultants, Inc. DPetersam@admissionsconsultants.com
www.admissionsconsultants.com/mba/blog.aspx
AdmissionsConsultants 703.242.5885 |
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