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Originally posted by mfea2009

Hi Heather and forum,

I feel obligated to respond to this. Before writing to this forum, I knew the basic answers to all my questions, but wanted to judge the quality of the AdmissionsConsultants firm as I was considering working with them. The advice given here is very poor. While I am most definitely not as knowledgeable as a member of an admissions committee, I've spent some significant time lately doing research on my chances at grad school. The conclusions I've drawn are based on the advice given to me by economics faculty members at my school and also here - http://kuznets.fas.harvard.edu/~athey/gradadv.html (advice from Harvard economist Susan Athey on getting into graduate school in economics) - and they directly contradict what Heather is saying.

Essentially, as my current record stands, I have almost no shot at the top schools, for a number of reasons, and your advice is wrong on almost every point. First, my level of math is inadequate for understanding first-year graduate economics, and will preclude my acceptance barring some outside evidence of mathematical genius (which I don't happen to have). I at least need multivariable calculus, calculus-based statistics, linear algebra, and differential equations to be able to handle the first year at any top-5 school. Here another Harvard economist, Greg Mankiw gives a list of math one should have taken as an undergrad - http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2006/05/which-math-courses.html . Also, not having at least one course in real analysis (considered a test of one's mettle in proofs, which are essential for economics) will be a problem, especially given that my math abilities will be in question. Only having taken two easy math classes, with one B in the more important of the two, will destroy my application at top-5 schools and most likely at many lesser-ranked schools as well. Taking more math is not a matter of "showing determination" if I "have the time" - maybe taking Topology II in my spare time after having completed a second major in math might show that - this is about meeting widely-known basic prerequisites for economics graduate school! Just have a look at any econ department's website!

Moving on, the advice to not urgently prioritize retaking the GRE is also poor. There is (unfortunately) an arms race in GRE quant scores for economics, and some people will tell you that you need an 800, whereas some will tell you that a 780 is probably okay. My 760 is most definitely not okay for a top-5 unless I had an amazing application otherwise (which we've already established I don't.) Retaking the GRE is not just a way to show I have "determination to improve" - but rather is absolutely essential, *especially* given that my weak math background will already have them questioning whether my quantitative abilities are up to scratch for surviving grad school.

On to banking versus research - more bad advice. Another (in my mind unfortunate) fact about economics graduate school is that only a very limited set of post-grad jobs can help an application, and many can hurt. The ones that help are the ones that get you doing substantial research (RAships, working at the federal reserve, etc.) and while it is possible that i-banking will not hurt my app, it certainly won't improve it. On the contrary, it very likely might signal to the admissions committees that I'm not all that serious about economics itself an am looking into a PhD to further a business career - which they won't be happy about as they see themselves as first and foremost training academic researchers.

On the other hand, the RAship is a golden opportunity - my current recs are decent but certainly not amazing because people who taught me an undergraduate economics class are not really going to be able to comment either on my quantitative ability or on my research ability - the two things admissions committees are really interested in. Working as an RA boosts my application in three ways - I will get much better recommendations, I will have research experience, and it will also give me time to take more math. As much as I'd like to take the i-banking job, if I'm serious about graduate school, I'd be pretty stupid to not take such a golden opportunity to improve a quite flawed record.

Here's one paragraph in Athey's advice that really seems to address people in my situation:

"Students from top universities who have the bare minimum coursework (an undergraduate major, no graduate economics or math classes, and only basic undergraduate math classes) will need something really outstanding -- like a thesis that is publishable in a top economics field journal--to get fellowships at the top two or three graduate programs. Typically the strongest applicants have some distinguishing feature, like scoring near the top of a graduate class at a top PhD program, very strong math (e.g. graduate level real analysis and topology), or an outstanding thesis or coauthored research."

And I don't even have the basic undergraduate math classes!

The bottom line for me, which I've concluded after a lot of heartbreak and discussions (that went something like - "what? an almost perfect GPA at a great school and I have almost no shot at graduate school?) is that if I really want to do grad school at a good place, then I have a lot of work left to do, but that I'm very lucky that I have a good GPA and undergrad institution to build on. My current plan is to take the research job and spend a lot of time on math classes. After a year or probably two, if I do well in both the job and the math, I can be a strong applicant for the top-5, but even then may have to settle for top-10.

This post is really long and it's a little weird that I've bothered to spend the time writing this down. I suppose I'm hoping that if another econ person stumbles by here, they 1) won't be misled by the original advice given to me and 2) will find useful the links to better resources.

Additionally, I am in no position to judge whether Heather's advice is quality for other fields, but I guess I'm saying to all the non-econ people - be careful with the advice on here. I appreciate that Heather spends so much time giving out free advice, but it seems that in some cases that it is bad enough that it could actually be damaging. This is the internet, so of course everything should be taken with a lot of salt, but this website certainly has the guise of professionality. Yet at least in my field, Heather seems to be uninformed about even the basics of the admissions process, which is particularly striking given the wealth of free information out there for economics applicants that can be found with just a little googling.

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Originally posted by hmacneill

Thanks for your post. It sounds like you are in a good position to be competitive at some of the top schools. I do not think re-taking the GRE is required but it might show a determination to improve - if you have the time to commit to it. As for the decision of banking versus research for the next year - that might just depend on your long term goals. The research experience will certainly be helpful when applying to PhD programs - no doubt. However, the banking job will also look good on the application and may help if your long term goal is to work in banking - this will good reinforcement when defining your motivation in your application.
Taking more math classes falls in the same category as the GRE - it can only help your application. If you have time - it's worth it and it show determination.
Good luck.
Heather

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Originally posted by mfea2009

Hi,

I am interested in getting a PhD in Economics from a top-5 program.

I have a 3.9 GPA overall at an ivy-league school, a 3.9 in my Economics Major, and have also taken Intro Calc and Intro Statistics. Calc was one of my B's. My GRE is a 760Q/720V (don't know AWA yet).

I think my recs will be decent, from profs who taught me in economics classes in which I made A's.

I am graduating this year and have an offer to work at an investment bank. Right now I plan to take it for a year and apply to grad school during that time, so starting now I have a year to prepare. I have a few questions:

1. What are my chances given my current profile? Would I get into a top-five with my current qualifications?
2. Is my GRE sufficient for a top-five school or should I retake?
3. My advisor mentioned that he might have a full-time research assistant job for me next year. Since I don't have any research experience, should I take this job instead of the investment bank? I'd rather work at the bank, and I have a feeling the real-world experience would help my apps a lot. Do you think this is true or should I reconsider the RA job?
4. Should I try to take some more math classes? I have one semester left here and could probably fit one in, or maybe I can take them on the side while working next year. If you think I should, which classes should I prioritize?

Thanks so much for your help!!

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AdmissionsConsultants
www.admissionsconsultants.com/graduateschool/blog.aspx
703.242.5885

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Originally posted by hmacneill

Thanks for your post. It is possible that some of the schools that you apply to will also look at your TOEFL scores and will look to your writing (essays) for your language skills. Keep in mind that the GRE is just one small part of the application. You have a strong GPA but that will need to be coupled with strong letters of recommendation and a convincing statement of purpose.

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Originally posted by student156

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for advice for my problem.

I have repeated the GRE four times and could not improve the verbal. The latest score is V340 and Q780 and AWA=4.0 . I am an international student trying to get a PhD in electrical engineering from one of top US engineering schools. I hold GPA of 4.0 and ranked first in my home country but I am worried that my application will be rejected just by my verbal. Please please guys any advice?

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AdmissionsConsultants
www.admissionsconsultants.com/graduateschool/blog.aspx
703.242.5885

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Originally posted by hmacneill

Thanks for your post. Your GPA and GRE score may very well be a barrier to your admission into a graduate program. Your application will come down to how well your references communicated their confidence in your academic abilities at the graduate level and how well you were able to communicate your understanding of the field and what you hope to do with your Masters degree. If you are not admitted - there is a good chance that re-taking the GRE will help add some confidence to your academic potential.
Good luck.
Heather

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Originally posted by vulcanis

Hi there, I'm applying to a masters program at michigan state in telecommunications. They don't really have any recommended scores for the GRE or anything so I was wondering if you could help me evaluate my chances.

Overall undergrad GPA 2.65, subject GPA around 2.9
verbal 490, quant 480, AWA 5.5
4 letters of recommendation
2 years of work in the field
1 personal statement essay (I did a pretty good job on that I think) I didnt do very well my first two years in school but definitely picked things up in my last two years at school. I find it odd that I got such a low score on my Verbal when my writing was a 5.5, as I find myself to have a pretty good grasp on the english language in general. Though, I do tend to get nervous during standardized tests, plus I hate math, and it kind of rattled me because the verbal was given after the math section, so I was a bit tense going into it. I probably would have done better on verbal had it been right after the writing section I bet.

Should I be worried about anything? Is it highly possibly they may say something like, "While we appreciate your interest in the masters program, we invite you to apply again in the fall."?
Thanks for the help.

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AdmissionsConsultants
www.admissionsconsultants.com/graduateschool/blog.aspx
703.242.5885

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Originally posted by ccs217

I'm applying to the Harvard Graduate School of Education's Language and Literacy Program. I graduated in 2001 from NYU with a BFA in drama, and am finishing my two year commitment to Teach for America right now.

Concern One: My biggest concern has to do with the "activities" portion of the application because I've had a pretty non-traditional path to get here. I really have very few "extra-curricular" activities to list. I'm not sure I actually even understand exactly what they are looking for here. My free time was always devoted to acting or directing before, and now it's all taken up with teaching and Teach for America activities. I know I can't leave it blank, but what do I say?

Concern Two: I have two incredibly strong recs, but I'm stumped as to where to get my third. Before I did TFA I was working as an actor so any references there seem irrelevant. I don't have an "academic" reference because I'm so far out of school and it was a very different area of study. Should I ask a colleague from my current school?

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

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Originally posted by ExpAttractor

Dear Admission Consultant,

I am an Italian graduate in Mathematical Engineering (with a converted 3.97 GPA, 4.00 GPA in Math courses). I graduated with honors and in one semester less than required. I am now willing to pursue a PhD degree in pure mathematics. Since I had very good GRE and toefl scores (720 V - 800 Q - 4.5 A for the GRE, 115/120 Toefl), I have good recommenders, and I had a mathematics research article published on an international journal.
(an outstanding one), I only applied to four schools: Indiana University, Illinois University (UC), Berkeley and Princeton (long shots). A 5th application to CMU is in progress.

I discovered I had a 770 (83%) on the GRE math subject. I know it is a fairly good but not exceptional (no top school level) score.

I am asking for some advice: does this score put my admission (and hopes for a fellowship) to some of the schools (Princeton, Berkeley, IU) in jeopardy? Shall I apply to some other universities? I was considering Texas-Austin, Michigan, Brown (still a top one, I know), Rutgers... Take into account I am mainly interested in PDEs and dynamical systems, so Berkeley and IU would be exceptional places for me, and these one I listed would be very good.

Thank you,

Francesco

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Originally posted by oak634

Hi Admission Consultants

A summary of my profile:

Undergraduate School: Northwestern University
Major: Electrical Engineering
GPA: 3.55
GRE Score: 1530 (780Q and 750V)
Work Experience: 3 years with a telecom operator. Involved in design of architecture and launch of different voice services.
Status: Non-US citizen

I would appreciate it if you could evaluate my chances of admission in Duke, Dartmouth and Stanford graduate schools. I am applying to the Engineering Management programs in Duke and Dartmouth. Also, I am applying to Management Science and Engineering program in Stanford. I understand that you would require more details, however, any idea would be helpful!

Thanks

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Originally posted by rpisingh

Hi

I am currently working at Knolls Power Atomic Lab (KAPL- run by Lockheed). I graduated from RPI (Rensselaer) Nuclear Engineering (GPA-3.82)and am just about to complete an applied math major at RPI (3.9)while working at KAPL for 3 years. I have not yet taken the GMAT but expect to get a score in range of 670-720. I was wondering if with my academic profile I had enough experience to get into any of the following MBA programs:

1) NYU
2) Columbia
3) Cornell
4) Dartmouth

Thanks

Randip Singh

Randip Singh

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