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y82benji
'04 Poster of the Year!
USA
601 Posts |
 Posted - 01/23/2005 : 12:39:53
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Did anyone else see this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6856357/
Apparently now professors at Princeton are not allowed to give out A's (A-, A, or A+) to more than 35% of their class.
Personally, I think it is foolish because some material is simply easier to master than other material and those Princeton kids aren't dumb. I know several people that went to Princeton and if any of them received an A in a course I can be fairly certain they earned it. Then again, people are crying "grade inflation" and how do you deal with that? The only way would be to release scores on standardized tests that their students achieved to show that they really did learn the material at a high level. |
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girlwithambition
Underclassman
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 03:25:35
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They had the same thing at the University of Texas at Austin. Professors were restricted to a certain number of As per section. I averaged a 96 on tests, the midterm, and a final in a Spanish class my freshman year, but received a B. I was told by the professor that this was due to grade quotas. I was expecting a grade report full of As and Bs; I got one full of Bs and Cs (plus 1 D) instead. That was also the year a French professor got me alone in his office and told me no matter what I did, I would fail his class. I went to the Ombudsman and was promised that I would not fail the class. I received a D. I brought my work to other professors in the department who told me they would have given me an A.
I pretty much gave up after that and didn't study...and got the same grades as I did when I worked my tail off. This is why I can't get into graduate school. I wish I'd never set foot onto the UT campus. I hope Princeton doesn't go the same way, but it looks like it is.  |
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Posc
'05 Poster of the Year!
191 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 13:45:30
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I think it is good. People konw a 3.0 from Princeton is a 3.7 from a lesser school. Who would want to be team MVP of a team where every other player received a similar award?
Trying to think of a catchy phrase. |
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y82benji
'04 Poster of the Year!
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 13:56:36
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| That's not really the way it pans out in med school admissions. Only differences of like 0.1-0.2 are really considered for the most part. So a 3.5 at princeton might seem like a 3.7 at a lower level university, but I would say it's not stretched much more than that. |
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BMP2k
Underclassman
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2006 : 17:41:35
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| I think that it is ridiculous for a school to have policies that limit the number of A's a professor can give out. The purpose of a grading system is to not only have a way of evaluate performance but to be able to compare that performance with others on the same system. If my professor is only giving out 35 A and I happen to get in a class with 35 people like John Roberts and Albert Einstein that set the standard for an A at 98% and my friend at the same school is in class full of crash test dummies, then his A and my B or maybe even C in same class could potentially be based on the same level performance, but someone looking at my transcript will not know that. I could understand setting the standard for an A at 98% and allowing as many students that can perform at that level to receive an A, but quotas disrupt the entire grading systems ability to be comparable. |
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tncekm
Underclassman
1 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 19:06:14
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"People konw a 3.0 from Princeton is a 3.7 from a lesser school."
Man, I get so sick of hearing this kind of stuff I had to register just to reply. Medical school professionals give a +/- 0.1 or 0.2 for a reason.
I know plenty of people who have attended a variety of universities and there difference in education is WILDLY exaggerated. The big plus to attending a school with a great reputation is the competitive environment and the research facilities.
One good example of this is I've got a buddy who was a straight A student, had a 4.0 at UC Berkely for his first two years, took classes at JC and recieved his first B's (and he was devestated). That's after he completed a year and a half of calculus and a year of physics at berkely. |
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leogiggles3
Underclassman
3 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 15:13:10
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This is my first post, but I am a Princeton student, and grade deflation is a huge issue here. First, it's a department wide "quota" which has very different implications from class based quotas. In some departments, for instance, they give very low grades in their intro courses so they can "save" the As for majors in higher level classes. This has led many to fear taking classes outside their comfort zone. It has also led to a contradictory message from the administration that goes "You students are so shallow, you shouldn't care about grades, only about learning- but now we force you to pay attention to grades because otherwise you will do poorly"
And, although there are always exceptions, people here are generally extremely bright and would get higher grades if they attended a less rigorous school. Statistically, however, coming from Princeton is a disadvantage for graduate school all else being equal. A student with a 170 LSAT score and 3.5 GPA has a better chance of law school admissions if they come from bum-dumb university than from Princeton because of diversity issues- they already took 5 people from Princeton (with 3.6 and 171), and they don't want to look like they are promoting the "good old boys" network. You may disagree, but you would be wrong- I mean technically speaking. For the data set and statistical analysis see Bowen and Bok's Shape of the River or some articles from Gary Orfield. |
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dukekid
Upperclassman
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 13:13:01
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| I go to duke, and i guess we're not known for deflation, but our science classes only give out 16% of A-, A, and A+, one phsyics class gave out 35% A's, and that was thought of as a HUGE kinda gesture, so i dont think 35% is that low of a number. But for our non-science classes... i think like 50% get A's |
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dukekid
Upperclassman
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 13:14:55
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| so i see the policy as a way to help science pple get their gpas up and non-science to get them more like science |
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ken penn
Underclassman
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 18:08:56
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If 35% of the grades are "A"s then that might lead one to believe the distribution curve would yield a 3.0 average GPA.
I've seen an exit pole of Yale grads, where the Ave GPA is a 3.6. So long as everyone knows that 3.6 is average, then perhaps that's OK.
I have degrees from a Top 5 school and a Top 20 school, and the competition just wasn't there at the Top 20. Getting As was much easier, but this school also had a 25% Yield for "As."
The Top 5 school, I attended publishes average GPA by school. When I was there it was:
Engineering 2.2
Business 2.4
Liberal Arts 2.6
An Average student, at that school, should get an average grade? 2.0?
I've also seen kids with a 12MCAT and a 3.4 get passed over for a 12MCAT and 4.0 from a Top 50 school. Perhaps the thought is that the 4.0 shows the person was unchallenged and therefore has more upside potential.
Ken |
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Grade Capping at Princeton
